A Taste of St. Lucia with Chef Marissa Leon-John

In this heartfelt and lively episode of The Moreish Podcast, Hema chats with Chef Marissa Leon-John, a private chef from Montreal who brings her rich Caribbean roots from St. Lucia and St. Vincent into every dish she creates. 

Marissa shares her exciting journey on MasterChef Canada, her unique experiences working as a guest chef in St. Lucia, and the joy of infusing traditional Caribbean flavours into upscale dishes. The conversation delves into more personal topics, including the challenges and beauty of growing up with a dual identity in Canada, and her passionate advocacy for young Black and LGBTQ youth in the culinary world, plus, get the scoop on her spice line, Fairy Dust, and her plans for documenting cherished family recipes. 

Resources:
Connect with Marissa Leon-John:
ElleJays Website
ElleJays on Instagram
Fairy Dust Spices on Instagram

Transcript

Marissa Leon-John: I just thought of my grandmother. I thought of my aunties. I thought of,  all these meals that I've grown up loving, the flavors that I know and love  that  we don't value  as highly as, a classic French cuisine or Italian cuisine. This, that,  The complexities in our recipes match or surpass lot of these other culinary styles that get a lot of praise and have high dollar values.  We undervalue our own food  and I was not about it. 

The   Moreish Podcast: This is The Moreish Podcast, where Caribbean history meets culture and cuisine.

Hema: Good morning, Marissa. Thank you so much for joining me today on The Moreish Podcast.

Marissa Leon-John: Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. It is an absolute pleasure to be chatting with you

Hema: I've been really looking forward to this conversation because, you know, doing the research and looking at all of the things that you have done in your life and continue to do are so exciting and we're not even going to dive into the whole MasterChef thing, but let me tell you,I read that and I was like, Oh my gosh, now I'm nervous to have this conversation.

Marissa Leon-John: It's been a journey. The journey has been real. MasterChef was like, uh, a huge part of my culinary journey, but even just leading up into that point and everything since then, it's been a wild ride.

Hema: So before we dive right into the conversation, let's have you introduce yourself and give a little bit of your background.

Marissa Leon-John: Okay. So, my name is Marissa. I am a private chef based in Montreal, um, born and raised on this beautiful island with roots in two other beautiful islands. My mom is from St. Lucia. My father is from St. Vincent and the Grenadines and, they immigrated here and, you know, with that, that Canadian, Canadian dream of having a better life and, offering their kids opportunities that they didn't have.

And, I'm, I'm trying to, you know, be a testament to that hard work and sacrifice that they've made. Yeah, through my own journey.

Hema: And quite a journey it has been. I want to ask you about St. Lucia and St. Vincent. Do you identify with one culture more over the other?

Marissa Leon-John: Yes and no. My parents did a really, really good job when we were younger. It was very important for them that my brother and I knew where we came from. So from a very young age, we would travel to St. Lucia and St. Vincent and their neighboring, neighboring islands. So if you visit one, you gotta visit the other.

We've got a lot of family back home I really do feel like I have three homes. I have Montreal, I have St. Lucia and I have St. Vincent. Um, yet I must say that my heart's calling is on the island of St. Lucia. I, I, I'm so drawn there. It is where I feel most myself and like truly, truly at home.

Hema: Why do you think that is? That St. Lucia is really where your heart is?

Marissa Leon-John: Um, honestly it's the energy of the island. Whenever I visit, whenever I'm there, it's as soon as you step off the plane, the island's warmth, that, that energy. It's electric. Everyone is so kind, so generous. And just so willing to put some food in your mouth, put a drink in your hand, and just like welcome you in, like there's nothing, it's very hard for me to compare it to anything else. It's, it's a feeling, it's an energy, it's a vibe, and it's something that I'm, oof, I feel it coursing through my veins and I want it all the time.

Hema: I can understand that. The Caribbean is a, is, a special place for me, because my family is Trinidadian. But I feel because there's so many similarities from island to island and country to country, I just feel like such a kinship with people from all over the Caribbean. And, and exactly what you've described is, the warmth of the people and you can never visit somebody's house and not eat something, right?

Marissa Leon-John: Right? Stay hungry, stay hungry. You don't have to get hungry because someone's going to feed you. Anywhere you go, always just stop. Just touch and go. This is my uncle's favorite, favorite expression. We're just going to touch and go quick, quick, quick. Yet we'll stay at one spot and have a full meal.

Hema: Hundred percent, and then go to the next spot and do the same.

Marissa Leon-John: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Island vibe.

Hema: Before we dive into the history and the food of the island. You and I have a very similar upbringing in that our parents moved from the Caribbean to Canada. We were both born and raised here and we were having a little conversation off camera about the experience of growing up in Canada, but being from the Caribbean. And

Marissa Leon-John: Yes.

Hema: For me, I, you know, I, and I've said this many times is I always felt like I lived a double life. There was, you know, I grew up in the seventies, there was a lot of racism. And unfortunately, in 2024, there still is a little bit of misunderstanding of people that look like me being from the Caribbean, but I'm interested in your experience.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. Oh, yeah. There’s so many layers. And yes, so many similarities.

You know, my mom came to Montreal when she was nine years old, so she came quite young. My father came with his family, um, I believe he was like 12 or 13 when he got here. So, the assimilation started fairly early for them. Yet the, the roots, the roots, the heart and soul, the culture remained.

And, you know, having grown up here, born and raised in Montreal, my parents had like that Canadian dream, you know, you want that white picket fence. You want to live in the suburbs. You want the kids to play all the different sports, this and that. And we had that growing up, my younger brother and I, yet we were always different, you know, um, token, the tokens, the tokens on going to the pool for swimming lessons. were shook, you know, my brother showing up for hockey lessons, skating lessons for myself. Folks were like, what are you doing here? Are you lost? 

We, we fit into the community, so for, you fit into the community, but still being othered. So I'm othered out there, out in the world, where I'm, I'm being told that I'm so articulate and, you know, you're so smart, all the micro, all the microaggressions, you know, yet because we were in kind of suburbia, we grew up in the suburbs, when I'd hang out with Caribbean kids who weren't in the suburbs, I was whitewashed. 

So I didn't fit in there. I didn't fit in, in my community that I was living in. At home, we had our nucleus. Where, you know, I'm eating my bakes and saltfish, my oxtail, my curry goat, you know, I was, um, was and am very proud. Listened to my Soca and Calypso. Yet also, you know, you know, there's the code-switching  and there's the, I felt like a chameleon um, growing up. And then also you add that third layer of being in Quebec where there's a bilingualism. So if I'm meeting Anglophone white people in Quebec, they automatically think I'm Jamaican. If I'm meeting Francophone Quebecois people, they're thinking I'm Haitian because I speak French.

Hema: Wow.

Marissa Leon-John: There are more than two islands in the Caribbean.

Hema: Right. Right.

Marissa Leon-John: There are many islands and I'm from neither of those. You know, so yeah, finding a place and having that pride and sharing that pride has become something that like, I'm just so passionate about it. I want people to know about I want people to know about St. Vincent, you know, there are so many nuances while all the, islands have something in common because I know I love me some Trini doubles and I do love jerk chicken, there's so much more to us than that. And that's what I love to share.

Hema: I hear a variation of what you've just shared, it's my lived experience. Many people that I've talked to who come from, you know, their parents come from different islands in the Caribbean, but maybe are growing up in North America somewhere, have very similar experiences.

And, and for me, I really struggled with my identity for a long time until I was just like, you know what, maybe I'm too whitewashed for some people and maybe I'm too something else and other for other people, but that's that’s fine. We're just going to talk about it all here on the podcast, and hopefully people will understand what, where, where we're coming from.

Here's a little controversial question that I don't normally get into this early, but we're talking about this. There are so many people who say, if we weren't born in the Caribbean, that we can't claim it. What is, how do you feel about that?

Marissa Leon-John: Totally disagree, fully and wholeheartedly disagree. And I'll, I'll, I'll tell you this. For a long time, I did struggle with that. I am Canadian, again, born and raised here. However, my parents home is my home, and there's no taking away from it. And when I visit St. Lucia, I was in St. Lucia a couple of years ago, and the first thing that my auntie said to me was, welcome home. You know, we are where we come from. Like, the truth is, and it's so funny to say, if the day comes when they're sending us all back, where are they sending me? They're sending me to St. Lucia. They're sending me to St. Vincent. They're not claiming me here in Canada, right? 

So I completely disagree with the sense that like, if I wasn't born there, I'm not from there. The pride that I have for the islands that I'm, that I do come from, I say it all the time. I come from St. Lucia, St. Vincent. I was born here, but I know where I come from, and I'm proud of where I'm coming from. And when I'm on the islands, people know I'm foreign.

Hema: Right?

Marissa Leon-John: Yes, I'm foreign. However, you know, I'm, give me that roast breadfruit, I'm picking the mangoes right off the tree. I'm going to get my coconut. You know….

Hema: 100%. 

Marissa Leon-John: it's, it's, it's I am. And there's no taking away from that.

Hema: I wholeheartedly agree and I've had many a discussion with people around this and I recognize having been born and raised in Toronto, in Canada, that yes, I'm Canadian. Yes, I have a Caribbean background, but my, Caribbean-ness is different from somebody that grew up in Trinidad or grew up in St. Lucia. I recognize that.  It's, I have a different lived experience, but it doesn't take away from my culture. 

And that sorts of leads me into, the history of the island. And so maybe our, um, Caribbean identity is a little bit different than somebody who lives there because we live in a different location. And that happened with a lot of people who set the tone and the culture for what is the current Caribbean experience. 

So when we look back at the, at the history is the Indigenous people were the first ones to inhabit the island. We have the Arawak and the Carib people, but then St. Lucia in particular has quite a story in that the island changed hands so many times. 

Marissa Leon-John: 14 times between the British and the French. The Dutch tried to get in there, but they got the boot. They made it to other islands. But yeah, changing hands between the French and English, so many times. St. Lucia has a very interesting identity, culture clash, mix, fusion, confusion, all of that mixed in there, which is wild. Just wild.

Hema: And it's one of the, it's one of the Caribbean nations that also still has an Indigenous identity, right? That's still quite recognizable. Whereas in some other places, a lot of the Indigenous identity is not there anymore because they were wiped out. St. Lucia tends to have, and this is much more a question than a statement, tends to have a lot of identity around their Indigenous peoples.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah, it's, I was about to say, well, yeah, there's Carib beer. Carib beer is the beer of St. Lucia, you know. 

There is a, a great sense of pride. It's the intersectionality, the juxtaposition between like the pride that is on the island for, let's say, the Commonwealth, you know, um, there is still that there's a strong colonial pride that exists. And there's also a very, very strong Indigenous, ancestral, spiritual connection is undeniable. Undeniable. 

And I really do lean in on that like spiritual side because all of the Indigenous home remedies, Indigenous recipes, you know if you catch a cold. St. Lucia, someone's auntie, someone's grandma will have the remedies for you. No bottle. You're not going to the pharmacy. You're not going to the drugstore. They're going out to the fields, finding the bush, making the tea, making the syrups, rubbing your body down with these like ointments and lotions and potions that have been passed down. And those come from the Indigenous folks. That is, that is a huge source of pride on the island that is like undeniable and also, you know, the look even though there's there been so many mixes the centuries, you'll see some very Indigenous looking people on the island. That's another, another area that's a sense of pride.

There's no hiding or denying, you know, our ancestral roots.

Hema: When, when we talk about the, the history and we, said, the Indigenous people, and there were the two main ones that we talked about, the Arawaks and Carib people, we talked about the Dutch very briefly being on the island, but they weren't the ones, to settle. And then the French and the English fought over the island for a long time. It was a British colony, part of the Commonwealth and St. Lucia got, gained independence much later than many others.

Marissa Leon-John: Yes. Yes. I believe it's only like 76 years ago.

Hema: Yeah,

Marissa Leon-John: 76, maybe 77. It's really not long.

Hema: Not long at all. The first, enslaved people were actually Europeans. And so that was Europeans. And then it was enslaved people from Africa, and then they had indentured servants from India.

And then they had, obviously their Indigenous people, the French, the British. So there's a lot of cultures that came to the island or brought were brought to the island are really mixed up, as you just mentioned. What do you think, or is there a predominant culture, a predominant influence?

Marissa Leon-John: It depends. If people are trying to act stush and be bougie, the British accent comes out, right? Yeah. So when you're really trying to put on that you are well-to-do, the British accent will come out and we know that is that strong, strong influence. What I've experienced on the island is there's the strong sense of, let's say military pride, and that comes from the Brits.

Hema: Okay.

Marissa Leon-John: So, you know, the boys go to training and they do their basic training and the camp. And it's very, there's this militant pride, that is so very British. So obviously replicating what we see over there, what they brought over. And then there's also, you know, because they speak, Patois, they speak Creole in St. Lucia. So there's a French aspect as well. 

There's, there's pride in all in so many different areas. And even with the independence, it's hard for me to say because I'm, I'm like the outsider looking in and I'm like, you're free, free yourself of all of this. Yet it's, there's still a lot of that old, old thinking, you know, where there's British supremacy and superiority. And yes, there are French influences and I'm seeing generational shifts where younger generations are, are really seeing themselves as like St. Lucians. There's a St. Lucian pride we're kind of stepping away from some of that old school mentality and rediscovering what it means to be St. Lucian, like the foods that come from St. Lucia, the, yes, the foods, the remedies, the music, songs. I don't even know if I answered your question,

Hema: You, you did.

Marissa Leon-John: But it's a mix. It's such a mix and there's a sense of pride in every, for every piece that came and tried to take from the land. There's pride in it. And there's a part of that that I really struggle with, yet I understand where it comes from.

Hema: You, you did answer the question and, and you know, quite honestly, it's a difficult question because there's no, there's really no like, it's all British or it's all African or it's all, you know. anything, right? Because there is so much, so many influences and so many different cultures that came together to influence what is now St. Lucian culture.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. There's so many layers and threads to the fabric, and like Jounen Créole, which is the day where everyone puts on their Caribbean colours and we see the patterns and little kids going to school in their uniforms. And it's a new uniform for that day cause it's just bright, beautiful. And that sense of pride is there. And that's Island pride. That's not like colonizer pride in any way, shape or form. So we have that and celebrate that. And I'm like, it can't just be one day of the year. It's got to be, you know, all of the days of the year and then every now and then we can recognize that some Brits and French people showed up, you know?

Hema: 100%. I struggle with that sometimes when I'm, when I'm having these conversations because, you know, I don't want us to forget the history of the islands, right? Because it, a lot happened to completely change the Caribbean. 

I was talking to, Keja Valens, who wrote a book, called Culinary Colonialism, about the history of cookbooks and cooking and food all across the Caribbean, and she says that the times of colonization completely both destroyed and created uh the Caribbean, and there's no going back to what it was. many years ago, but that doesn't mean we can't celebrate and be proud of what it is now.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah, it's true. And we see it at Carnival. When Carnival season comes around for every island, when everyone's showing up and showing out, and we're unapologetically

Hema: Yeah.

Marissa Leon-John: Caribbean in those moments. I live for those moments. And the world sees it. The world sees us in like, our big, bold peacock feathers. And they want in on it.

Hema: Yeah.

Marissa Leon-John: And, it's beautiful to see that expression of our Caribbean culture and our, our Caribbean selves, and then also like the deep diving, you know, into the food, into the food history, into the culture, into the music, into all of those things that kind of, you know, the things that we used to help break those shackles, remain and like are being amplified now.

Hema: And being amplified, people taking pride in what is current and what is the culture currently.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah.

Hema: As we talk about food, because obviously food is a big part of this conversation, but a big part of your life as a chef, the national dish is fig and saltfish. And so I want,

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah, it is.

Hema: I want to talk about that and then talk about food, but we know that, saltfish, which is all across the Caribbean, is a direct result and came from the times of colonization, right?

It was a, from the New World, actually from Canada, but it was the New World at that point.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. Nova Scotia.

Hema: Yeah. And salted so that it would last the long journey to make its way to the Caribbean. Bananas were grown on the island. But before we even get to bananas, pre bananas being so popular and being a major crop was sugarcane and rum, which played a big role in the economy of St. Lucia for a long time, but maybe still does?

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. St. Lucia has their rums. The Chairman's Rum, Admiral Rodney. I laugh every time I talk about them. I'm like, we really named the rum after the Admiral who brought his big old ship over, you know. Where's the petition to change that name? The rum is, it's a big deal in St. Lucia. Sugar cane is still very much a big part of the economy. The export of the rum a big part of the economy and a big part of the culture.

Hema: And then did bananas take over as, from sugarcane or was it in addition to?

Marissa Leon-John: In addition to, and even still now, if you drive through the island, the banana fields are abundant. Abundant, abundant, abundant.

Hema: So then it, it makes sense then that fig, which is, it's fig and saltfish, but it is a green banana, is part of the national dish.

Marissa Leon-John: Oh yeah. Everywhere you go, someone's got their recipe. Come have the green fig salad. And I'm like, sure.

Hema: And you actually worked in St. Lucia as a chef for a while? 

Marissa Leon-John: Ohhh, I did. Not for very long actually. I was invited to guest chef a, at a luxury resort in St. Lucia back in 2021. Um, which was an experience for me. Wow. I'm like, I get emotional thinking about it because it was such a wonderful opportunity to, to show off St. Lucian food cause I did my, I did my, my research on what the resort was serving. And I was struggling to find the, St. Lucian influence. Their menus, and they'd have, you know, you got your bakes, you could have bakes and saltfish if you wanted, but aside from that, there was very little, St. Lucian infusion in their menus, so I was like, well, this Canadian is coming over. 

And I walked into the kitchen, the head chef, is from a European descent. So the head chef, is Welsh, but all of his staff is in St. Lucian and I roll in, and I brought, I did, I did obviously bring some Canadian, I brought a ton of maple syrup, I'm Quebecoise, so I brought some cheese curds with me because I was going to make a real Canadian St. Lucian infusion menu. And when I told them that I wanted to work with dasheen, and I wanted to use ground provisions in my menu, and I wanted to use allspice and clove, and I wanted to use fresh thyme and cinnamon, like, I wanted to go to the market and grab the things. They're looking at me like Are you mad? We don't do that here. We don't, that's not, that's not what we do. And I found that thrilling. I was like, okay, so here's what we're going to do. We're going to take all of these ingredients that you eat at home, you go home, you leave the resort and you go home and you eat these things. Here's what we're going to do.

We're going to transform them. We're going to reimagine them. We're going to show them off for these folks who are coming in their private jets and coming and landing in the helipad and who are asking for, you know, their, lobster pasta, you know, we're going to give

Hema: Yeah.

Marissa Leon-John: them else and we're going to blow their minds and they're going to love it. And they did. And it was, the sense of pride being in the kitchen with St. Lucian chefs, cooking St. Lucian food.

Hema: My heart.

Marissa Leon-John: I was, I was outside of myself. Get me the chandon beni, me this, get me that, like, bring it in, bring it in. And we're putting it in

Hema: Yeah.

Marissa Leon-John: every plate. It was, it's something I'll never forget. And I know for a couple of the chefs on the team, they won't forget it either because they, they'd never tasted the ingredients we were using in such applications and they had not, that we could serve it that way. And that, I'm going to say it, that these white folks were licking up their plates. Saying can we get some more. It

Hema: I…

Marissa Leon-John: was everything for me. That was everything for me.

Hema: The pride that I can see on your face and in your conversation, and I can only imagine that the St. Lucian chefs that you were working with, really also feeling a sense of pride that the foods that they are familiar with and that they eat on a regular basis could be transformed and served to the tourists and, and that they could actually be cooking things that they know.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. You know, I, I was thinking, I just thought of my grandmother. I thought of my aunties. I thought of, you know, all these meals that I've grown up loving, the flavors that I know and love that we don't value as highly as, I don't know, you know, a classic French cuisine or Italian cuisine, this, that, complexities in our recipes match or surpass lot of these other culinary styles that get a lot of praise and have high dollar values. We undervalue our own food and I was not about it. I was like, we're at this resort that I know I could not afford to stay at.

Hema: Yeah.

Marissa Leon-John: You know, and I'm working with chefs who could not or would not even imagine sitting at the dining room table in the restaurants at this resort. And I'm saying, we got this. We got this.

We're about to show them. You're gonna see it too. And I hope when I leave that, you know, you can, you can put your little razzle dazzle, put a little, put a little extra flavor into it. and show them, show them what we can do. Show them that it's just as prestigious. It can be just as upscale. It can be just as elevated. It's not poor people food. Some of it is. Some of it is. Saltfish ain't cheap though.

Hema: Oh, every time I go to buy saltfish these days, I'm like, when did it become so expensive?

Marissa Leon-John: You know, it's so funny. During the pandemic, when, you know, all the Make America Great was going around? And I saw make oxtail cheap again, Make saltfish cheap again. I'm like, this is what I'm talking

Hema: right.

Marissa Leon-John: about. Forget making America great again. When was America great? Make oxtail cheap again.

Hema: Thank you. And, cassava I was like, it became popular. Plantain became popular and all of a sudden it doubled in price.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. Now everybody wants plantain and I'm like, cool. I'm glad. And I miss, I miss the old days of plantain prices.

Hema: I know. And I'm, I'm torn, right? Because I love that people are experiencing some of the foods and ingredients that we know and love and grew up with. 

Marissa Leon-John: And, and also the flip side of that is, you know, now let's see if we use oxtail a wonderful example. Oxtail is no longer cheap. It used to be the discard. Nobody wants the oxtails. So, we cook it. 

Now, seeing, in an Italian restaurant, an oxtail ragu, $40 plate. And folks will not hesitate to drop that money. When you go to a Caribbean restaurant, that's barely making ends meet. Because they want to sell their oxtail plate at $20. And $20 for an oxtail plate is very affordable. And folks are fighting them. They're like, I don't want to pay $20 for oxtail. And these restaurants can barely keep the lights on because even ourselves, like we're undervaluing it.

Yo, an oxtail plate can cost $40, and be well worth it. Don't tell me you're gonna go to x restaurant and pay for, pay $40 for, oxtail ragu they've taken it off the bone. You don't even get to suck on the bone. You're not even getting the best part. And pay that $40 dish and be like, oh my god, it was delectable, like, mmm. And then stick up your nose when the Caribbean restaurant wants to charge you $20 to $25 for a plate. With rice and peas and plantain and salad and plenty gravy. Come on, come on!

Hema: Between talking about bake, saltfish and oxtail, I'm getting hungry already because I, I know, you know, I know it's how delicious all of that is, and the ingredients, and you talked about, and we've been talking about inexpensive ingredients and oxtail having been an offcut that nobody wanted.

And so we were, people in the Caribbean were using it and, and that really harkens back to the days when people were only given and only allowed to use the ingredients that nobody else wanted, and they created these delicious dishes out of it that we still eat today.

Marissa Leon-John: St. Lucia's National Dish, green fig and saltfish. The green bananas and the saltfish were just tossed to the slaves. That was the scraps that they were given you know, like we do, put some spice into it we put some flavor into it and transformed something very humble into something so incredibly delicious. And now, saltfish is expensive yet still, you know…

Hema: I keep telling myself I need to learn how to make fry bake because I've never made it myself from scratch and I love it so much.

Marissa Leon-John: I’ll send you a recipe. I'll you a recipe.

Hema: Please, please do.

Marissa Leon-John: During, during COVID, and when we were locked down, it was a wonderful opportunity for me to deep dive into those recipes that I grew up loving. And I was like, I don't make these, I don't make these, and A), I'm not allowed to go over to see my

Hema: Mmm.

Marissa Leon-John: So do we do this? How do we do this? And so we did, I documented some of my grandmother's recipes her pepper sauce. We did bakes, we did pepper sauce, we did oxtail, we did, I documented those throughout COVID.

Hema: I love it.

Marissa Leon-John: Locked down those recipes and, Now, now I have them and I can pass them down and now I make bakes and I'm like, Grandma, is this okay? I do my, I put my little spin on things. I do little remixes and she is not about it.

She's a, she's a purist through and through. When I have pop-ups and I'm making oxtails, I make oxtail for pop-ups and folks are licking their fingers and grandma gets the feedback. And she goes, well, I didn't taste it. So I don't know. I didn't taste it.

Hema: She's, she's keeping you humble.

Marissa Leon-John: 100%bAnd I live for that. That's what grandmoms are for.

Hema: I, I love that. When, you know, as you talk about that, there's a line on, the website that says your Caribbean heritage is the foundation for a lot of, the passion, the food, honouring traditions. I'm paraphrasing, but it sounds like you bring those flavours into all of the food that you prepare.

Marissa Leon-John: That is what I believe my gift is. My ability to infuse those flavours, those spices, those seasonings, those aromas. Infuse it into anything. 

When I, like, when I, when I talk to clients, they're like, what kind of food do you make? And I'm like, honestly, what do you love to eat? Whatever you love to eat, I'll make it for you. And I promise you, you'll love it. You'll love it even more because I'm going to make it just a little different. 

And it's because I'll throw in those, those flavours that I grew up with and those flavours that have such a deep, meaningful history to me that are foreign still to a lot of people. Like everyone loves dried thyme and I'm like, yo, but have you had fresh thyme? You know, island thyme? Not Island Time, which is something else altogether. But, you know, and, and just putting those, putting those flavours into it. 

I have clients who ask me for something as simple as like, they want meat and potatoes, steak with a red wine sauce and potatoes, and I'll make them their steak. But in their red wine sauce, I'll infuse it with, oof, star anise, and allspice, and ginger. And like, what is this? I've never had this before. And instead of potato, I'll use dasheen. And they're like, what is this? And I'm like, you asked me for made potatoes. I made…

Hema: That's what you got.

Marissa Leon-John: Do you love it? do you love it? You love it. Thank you. So now you know what Caribbean food is, because I made you Caribbean food in a package that you recognize and you're comfortable with. And then there are other times where I will put it in a package they're not comfortable with, but that's, that's when I'm having a little more fun.

Hema: I love the flavours that come out of somebody's auntie's kitchen, grandmother's kitchen. One of my favourite things and one of the first things that I started making on my own when I was like a teenager was pelau. And I love pelau Always. And I make it with chicken. I make it with lamb.

It's my favourite thing. I can make it this one pot dish, but every single person makes it slightly different. Right. And, and it's an, that's just like an example of every household makes dishes slightly different. And that's why I love trying everybody's food because it's unique, even though it's a familiar dish.

Marissa Leon-John: Same. Same, same, same. You know, my, my dad cooks. Both my parents cook. My mom and dad, they both cook. If dad's making curry chicken, tastes one way. If mom's making curry chicken, it's one way. And don't ask who's, who makes it better. It just, it's different. For curry chicken, mom makes it better. For curry chicken, mom makes it better, but dad makes better saltfish, you know?

So it, and dad's Vincey. Dad’s Vincey and he makes the better saltfish. Mom's Lucian. She makes the better curry chicken, you know? And same thing, go to grandmom's house. Grandmom's got it with the oxtail. She's my blueprint. She's the prototype, you know? And then someone else will make it and I'm like, it's, it's good.

Hema: It's just not.

Marissa Leon-John: It's just, you know, I love that. The nuances, the differences, the everybody's got theirs and I'm, I'm here for it.

Hema: I am here for all of it as well. And even just in that little example that you gave, right, you talk about curry chicken, which has its influences from India. 

Marissa Leon-John: India, yeah.

Hema: You talk about oxtail and you talk about saltfish, which also comes from the times of colonization and the enslaved peoples. And even in that little example, we can see all of the different cultures that came through to influence the food.

Marissa Leon-John: Yes. Yes. Yes. And the other thing that I love is that we're talking about the Caribbean now, yet all of these dishes, there are variations of it in every culture. You know, like salted cod, will find salted cod... there's a salted cod dish, Latin America, Italian, Greeks. Everybody's got a cod dish.

Similarly with, I mean, the currys a little different, Indian curry, Chinese curry, Japanese curry, Caribbean curries, you can find your curry chicken all over.

I love that. We're, the threads that tie us all together reminding us that, it's the cliche, you know, we are more alike than we are different. And more often than not, you see that on a plate. 

When I'm sharing food with folks, you know, I'll be catering a dinner party for 20 people of different backgrounds and the food lands and everybody's tasting it and I wait, I wait for that moment because there's silence then there's that, mmmmm mmmmmm mmmmm, everyone can relate and it's sparking memories. You know, everyone has their own, oh, this reminds me of when somebody made this. Oh, it's, this reminds me of, of what my grandmother made for me. Oh, this reminds me of something I had when I visited Portugal on my honeymoon. And I'm like, cool. I'm from St. Lucia and St. Vincent.

Hema: Yeah,

Marissa Leon-John: You know, this is what we share.

Hema: This is what we share. The showing up on a plate and it shows the similarities and it shows a connection. I really feel like food is a really great way to show and share and connect with people on, on a level that most of us really enjoy having a moment around a plate of food,

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah, who doesn't love to eat?

Hema: Right?

Marissa Leon-John: I mean, we all have to eat, right? We all have to eat. And, um, I feel so lucky. I really do feel privileged and honoured and lucky to have inherited this, like, ancestral gift. To be able to share food with people and create recipes and, you know, take food to a level that really does build connection. That is what I love to do. 

I love, I love watching people eat. I love watching people eat. And, and even that is something that I learned. When we were young, we have a lot of family in Toronto and, we would often stay with my aunt and uncle, my cousins in, in Malton.

Hema: In Malton!

Marissa Leon-John: And we'd be doing the long drive and as soon as we got home, my Uncle Roy, my Uncle Roy made sure there was a pot, the food was ready, and he would just stand, he wouldn't eat with us, he would stand and watch us enjoy the food that he prepared for us. And every now and then I'd feel his hand on my shoulder. Is it good? It's good. And he'd call me piere coco, coconut tree, because I was long and lanky when I was little. He was like, Oh, my piere coco that good? And I would just, mmmmmm, and that's love to me. Like, that is love. So to be able to share that and have that same experience now, whether it's with a paying client or if it's with my, you know, nine-year-old nephew, we make something together, he eats it and I'm looking at him and I'm like, is it good? And he's like, yes, auntie. And it's like full circle.

Hema: That really explains your advocacy, and you're passing on of your gift specifically for young Black youth, LGBTQ+ is part of the work that you do.

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah. It's, interesting because when I show up in rooms, often I'm checking off every box in the diversity column.

Hema: Mm hmm.

Marissa Leon-John: Black, female, queer, chef. Um, taking up space. And it's powerful. It's powerful. And, uh, I love to show folks, like, this is what we can do.

Hema: Yeah.

Marissa Leon-John: Look at us. Look at us.  It's such a, it's a privilege.

Hema: The queer conversation and the Caribbean is, we don't have time to unpack the whole conversation, but can you talk about that a little bit? Because I can't speak about that from my lived experience, but I know that you have a couple of experiences that really would be helpful in this conversation.

Marissa Leon-John: Uh, yeah. I'm, I'm giggling already because, you know, we're everywhere. We are everywhere. And so yeah, I was in Saint Lucia in 2021 and I was there with my partner and I've, you know, I've, I came out to my family when I was like 15 or 16. So it's been time. My family here, I am who I am. They love me no matter what. That's cool. 

I was always a bit apprehensive about going to the islands. how it would be received, but my family in the islands, they love me just as much. My uncle, one of my uncles, he's, he calls me his radical niece, yet he parades me around the, the island as his radical niece, you know, because I'm still out and proud with, with, obviously within reason because, uh, there is still a lot of, you know, homophobia and there's a lack of acceptance. However, I walk into a room and I see a a look of people just like me, and it’s reassuring. It's comforting. We're, we're here and it'll take time. I know St. Lucia, I think St. Lucia had their first or second Pride, very small, very small.

Hema: But they had it.

Marissa Leon-John: They had it. And just tells me like, yeah, we're, we're, we're a few steps behind because it's still illegal. However, we're getting there. And through like being able to have this platform and have the visibility, like I showed up, Gay AF. It's not like I can hide it. I'm not trying to pass for anything, you know, like it or love it. That's, that's, that's how, that's how I roll. I'm here, like it or love it. If you don't, to the left to the left.

Hema: Right?

Marissa Leon-John: You know, I'm over it. And, as long as I feel safe and I did feel safe in like 95 percent of the spaces I was entering, I'm here and I'm not alone. Yeah, that's it. 

And the fact that every, every place I went to, we'd go to the beach. I'm like clocked and we're making eye contact and we're giving each other the nod like, okay, I see you, you know, go to the beach. Seen it. Go to the restaurant here. Seen it. Go into the market. Cool. We cool. We're on the transport riding down through town, you know,

Hema: Now, when you're, when you were in St. Lucia, were other people out or were, was it not a conversation that most people were having who live there?

Marissa Leon-John: The women who were out were out because even like there, it's, more acceptable for women to be queer than it is for men to be outwardly queer. The, the violence, toward the, the homophobic violence towards men is so much harsher, than it is for women. And, so although there are many gay queer men on the island, there were definitely the, the shape-shifting was there, you know? So out in the general, like, gen pop, they're doing their thing. There's a bit, a little bit more of a masculinity front, but then you sit down and you have a conversation and it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's caution. There's, you're out with caution. Like there is an asterisk. 

And it is mainly for safety reasons, which is hard. It's hard, yet the fact that folks can be out, one it's a relief, because my, my ultimate dream, my dream is to move to St. Lucia and live there. I want to, grow, set roots down there. And, I need to make sure that like my family will be safe and accepted and that I can have children and I can get married or like, if I'm married here, my relationship will be accepted there as well. That's very important to me. And part of that, like advocacy is like, well, I'm going to show up and we're gonna, we're going to do the thing, you know, it's not there yet.

Hema: It's not there yet, but it's better than it was 10 years ago.

Marissa Leon-John: 100%.

Hema: And we're having these conversations, right? We can openly have these conversations.

Marissa Leon-John: I'm 38 and I was in St. Lucia at 18 and there's a huge difference. I did not feel comfortable 10 years ago. I watched the, that's 20 years actually, that's 20years when I was 18, and I was there again in my mid-20s. I felt more comfortable, but still, and my mom would warn me, she'd be like, don't be too gay out there, and I took offense, but then I was like, no, no, she's right, I couldn't be too gay 10 years ago. Today, I'm as gay as I want to

Hema: Today you're not holding back.

Marissa Leon-John: Not holding back.

Hema: I, I love that, you know, I know that there's so much more to do and there's so much more acceptance, but it's coming. And I love to see that progress.

Marissa Leon-John: Same. Same. I can't wait to see more.

Hema: It'll, it'll come. We have been talking for almost an hour and I could have this conversation with you for much longer, but we don't have the time. So I would love to, before we wrap, we alluded to your MasterChef experience, but there's so much more to you than that, right? You, are a private chef. You do pop-ups. You have a line of spices?

Marissa Leon-John: I do. And, uh, I laugh because we talk about, people, people are talking about the gay agenda. And I'm like, well, here's my gay agenda. I named my line of spices Fairy Dust. Um, yeah, Fairy Dust, we launched last year, a line of spices that very much infuse those Caribbean flavours, that you can just like, it's, you've got that all-purpose sprinkle the magic on anything, anything, veg, meats. Whatever you want, that's it. And so that's how I like make, get myself, I'm trying to get myself in every kitchen, if I can get Fairy Dust in every pantry, uh,

Hema: Love. I love it. Uh, is it available on your website or in stores?

Marissa Leon-John: Yes, we are, we are online retail, so you can get it off the website. It's ellejays.ca, or you can find me on Instagram at ellejays_.

Hema: I will add those links in the show notes so people can find you. What else do you have coming up?

Marissa Leon-John: Ooh, what do we have coming up? Cooking up. Well, we're getting ready for the holiday season, so I'm hoping to get Fairy Dust on everybody's Christmas wish list.

Hema: Yes….

Marissa Leon-John: It makes the perfect stocking stuffer no word of a lie. It is what you want to give to folks or treat yourself. And then the, the Air Canada Best New Restaurants Gala unveiling is happening at the beginning of November. I'll be in Toronto for that. I was, privileged enough to be on the panel, nominating the great restaurants. So I'm excited to see if any of, any of my votes make it onto the top of the list.

Hema: Nice..

Marissa Leon-John: Yeah Just cookin away, cookin.

Hema: I love it. You, I meant to ask you this earlier. You said that you documented during the lockdowns, you documented those recipes. Where, is that something that people can see and find? 

Marissa Leon-John: Not yet. 

Hema: Okay, but maybe, maybe soon.

Marissa Leon-John: Yes. Yes. Um, the, the, there are several dreams. One of them is a cookbook and eventually when that day comes, I will open up the vault. all you got to do is ask. If you want to know something, just ask. I'm not gatekeeping. However, eventually, as a, as a thank you, as an ode to my ancestors, will put those recipes down and, share them with the world.

Hema: We need to do more of that, because I fear that as some of the older folks leave us their recipes and their way of life and their cooking and their bush knowledge is going to leave with them and it's people like you who are preserving and helping preserve that knowledge and I'm so grateful for the people doing the work to allow us to carry on.

Marissa Leon-John: I have so much more work to do. Like I have more digging to do, more history to discover. And I'm still trying to find all those bushes, you know, I, I've, I've only scratched the surface of the recipes, that I know and love. I've only scratched the surface. So I have more digging to do.

Hema: Same, the, the research that I do every episode, I'm unearthing more and more and learning more and, um, I don't want us to stop having these conversations, because we as Caribbean people have so much to share and so much history that I really want people to know and understand and love as much as we do.

Marissa Leon-John: Yes. Yes. I'm living for it.

Hema: I really appreciate you taking the time this morning to chat with me. I will leave all of the links in the show notes so people can connect with you.

Marissa Leon-John: I appreciate you. Thank you for allowing me to share my story, my passion, my love with you and your folks. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that.

The Moreish Podcast: Thanks for listening to this episode of The Moreish Podcast. Connect with us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at themoreishpodcast. See you for the next episode.