Discovering the flavours of Tobago with Devonne Adanna

Exploring the Rich Culinary Culture of Tobago

In the second episode on Tobago, one half of the twin-island nation of Trinidad & Tobago, Hema and guest Devonne Adanna, a storyteller and Caribbean history enthusiast from Tobago, dive into the diverse culinary traditions of Tobago. 

The discussion covers the historical influences on the islands' food, the distinction between Trinidad's fast-paced, street food culture and Tobago's homestyle cooking, and the unique flavours and dishes from both islands, including popular meals like pelau, curried crab, and doubles. 

The episode touches on local folklore, the influence of African culture across the Caribbean, and various snacks and sweets that are cherished in Tobago. Devonne shares some of her childhood favourite foods and memories.

Throughout the conversation we share some must-try foods and recipes, plus a one-day itinerary if you want to visit Tobago but are limited on time.

Connect with Devonne:
Instagram
TikTok
YouTube

Episodes mentioned:
Tobago's Past Revisited with Devonne Adanna
Exploring Dominican Republic with Harry Alvarez
Caribbean Culinary History with Keja Valens

Resources:
Tobago Main Ridge Forest Reserve
Tobago Cocoa Estate
Tobago Heritage Festival
Store Bay
Nylon Pool
Tobago Tourism

Transcript

Devonne:  One of the major things is important to note is that Trinidad culture lends itself to street food, so things like doubles.  So eating on the go, because of the nature of Trinidad, it's fast paced, it's a lot going on all the time. Whereas Tobago also has its own rhythm, also has its own pace, but people are more apt to have you, welcome you into their home and let's cook together. Let me cook this for you right, you're sitting right there and you get the food right there.

Hema: Devonne, welcome back to The Moreish Podcast.

Devonne:  Thank you. Hi.

Hema: After we wrapped the last episode, you and I spent several minutes just chatting and it was so much fun. And then I said, okay, listen, we need to stop talking because we're going to cover it in the next episode. So before we dive in, let's get reacquainted with you. Tell everybody a little bit about who you are.

Devonne: So my name is Devonne Adana. I am a storyteller and Caribbean history enthusiast. I am from the islands of Trinidad and Tobago, but I'm specifically from Tobago, which only has about 60,000 people on it compared to the 1.2 or so million in Trinidad. So from the smaller island, but, I have grown up in love with Tobago culture, which has manifested into a larger love of Caribbean culture. And  I can't stop talking about Caribbean culture and I love all stories and, you know, all the things that come with being Caribbean. 

Hema: And you share a lot of stories, not just about Trinidad and Tobago, but about the Caribbean as a whole on your social media so I'll be sure to link those down below so people can go and see some of the things that you're sharing. 

 Today we're talking about the food of Trinidad and Tobago. 

And so before, before we get there, I think it's really important to set the stage for a quick little recap of what we talked about the last time, because the history of the people, not only in Trinidad and Tobago, but across the Caribbean really has an influence in what the food is like today. 

Devonne: You are so correct. You are so correct. So with Trinidad and Tobago specifically, and I think, I think when people think of the Caribbean, they understand that yes, enslaved persons were brought to those islands, but I don't think they have an understanding of the other people that were brought as well.

So with Trinidad and Tobago specifically, Tobago is mostly colonized by everybody. So every European power except Portugal, that's the only one who, who didn't come, right? Because I guess their hands were full with Brazil and they did not seek out Tobago, but you have Britain, you have France, you have Spain as well, but not in the same, same way as they would have tried to colonize Trinidad.

They were more about linking up with other colonial powers to overthrow somebody else. Um, you also have the Dutch and believe it or not, you have the Latvians. That in itself was a whole other story. The man who was a ruler there was a distant cousin of the king. And so he was like, Hey, let's throw our hat in the ring and let's try this little island called Tobago.

So that, so Tobago's population and the funny, funny enough, when these people were colonizing, they would outnumber their own selves. So they would bring thousands of enslaved Africans to like 10 Europeans, which makes an interesting mix when it comes to things like food, language, and, and that sort of thing.

And then you have Trinidad that was mostly colonized by the Spanish. There is some French influence as well, but mostly it was colonized by the Spanish. And these are two different timelines we're talking about. Spain, did capture Trinidad, early from the time of Columbus, but they never really did anything with it, especially because their focus was more on Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, and South America. 

So not much was done with Trinidad, whereas Tobago was, the British were moving along with colonization there. Um, but then we get this Cedula of population where Spain basically says, Hey, why don't you come to this cool island named Trinidad? You can have land, no taxation, like just all sorts of wild promises for these people to come in. And when slavery ends it, well, let's say slavery is abolished. They have an indentureship period, but this indentureship period only applies to Trinidad.

Remember Trinidad and Tobago are two separate islands. They're not together at this point. Neither one knows what's going on on the other one. Um, so slavery is abolished, Tobago is evolving how it's evolving, and Trinidad is evolving how it's evolving with this increase of people with the Cedula population, but then later with the increase of Indian, Asian, Chinese Asian, and then East Asian people coming in.

So, it starts to become this really melting pot mix. So, we see that happening in Trinidad. Tobago, not so much. Tobago remains largely African, with some mixes in there, but not, not, not a whole lot. It's 90 percent African. 

Hema: Yeah, even before Trinidad and Tobago became a, became one country, their histories are very different.

Devonne: Definitely, and they're not only their history, but also their development, colonisation was impacted differently in Tobago than it was in Trinidad. And because of Tobago's location, like it's kind of out there close to Barbados, so its location meant that i t kind of was on its own. Britain wasn't like sending a ton of resources there.

And so because of that, Tobago had to kind of develop its own systems for doing things, that would be very, it would just be different to Trinidadians. Although today, I do want to say, today we see it more, it's almost like they're, the two are kind of meeting, but you still feel, you feel completely differently in Trinidad versus in Tobago. You, you feel it. You, everything about them is quite different.

Hema: And in the last episode, and I'll link that in the, in the show notes, because we did talk about so much, but in the last episode, you said that the population of Trinidad is almost equally split, Indian and Black Africans, whereas, whereas Tobago, the population is very different. 

Devonne: So the population in Tobago is mostly 90 percent African let's say 85 to 90 percent African with about 10 percent being other. And other is, Syrian, it's mixes of those of, of Indian and Black. It's mixes of Syrian and Black. It's like, you know, mixed, mixed peoples. 

And then there's also, a heavy influx of Venezuelan, and that's due to, of course, what's happening in Venezuela. A lot of people are fleeing, and Trinidad, at one time was, all borders were open to them. You see this influx also happening in Trinidad as well.

 So Trinidad right now is probably about 38 percent African, 39, 38 percent Indian, and then the rest is Latino, Syrian, Asian, Chinese Asian, um, mixes of persons. Again, makes a completely different food, food profile, flavour profile when you think about it,

Hema: Yeah. And that shows up in the food. Trinidad and Tobago is now one country, right? When we talk about it, we talk about Trinidad and Tobago. And when you talk about that, there is a national dish and an unofficial national dish of Trinidad and Tobago. One being callaloo & crab and one, and one being pelau.

Devonne: So yeah.

Hema: So let's, let's talk about that.

Devonne: So the national dish of Trinidad and Tobago is pelau, which I always feel like, you need a dish that is symbolic of rice and peas and meat coming together in many countries, but even though the word pelau for us is just really mix up, right? Like a lot of, it's like three different things mix up together, which could aptly describe Trinidad and Tobago, but in terms of what people eat on a regular basis. So in Trinidad, you have foods like, that are very curry based, which is natural given the, number of the Indian population there. In Tobago, the food is more stew based, right? But, but what you do have an abundance of in Tobago is seafood.

So Tobagonians believe their national dish is curried crab and dumpling. Whereas, Trini's would more gravitate towards your pelaus, your roti, and curried foods, even though Trinidad is surrounded by water, Tobago is more into the seafood. So curry fish, if you get curry fish in Tobago, you're likely going to get it with okro, but you're, that's not so in Trinidad.

So it's just these, it is, it's like, slight nuances, but not, I think it's, I think the, the foodie, is going to understand the differences. But somebody who's probably not into food, they're like, Oh, it's the same. People aren't going to always see it as, as different, but even in Tobago, in Tobago, we use more coconut milk in our stews and our curries, whereas they do do it in Trinidad, but just not as much as we do.

Now, one of the things when I think one of the major things is, is important to note is that Trinidad culture lends itself to street food, so things like doubles. And if you've never had a doubles in your life, run to the nearest Trinbagonian place and, and have it right.

So to eating on the go, eating, because of the nature of Trinidad, it's fast paced, it's a lot going on all the time. Whereas Tobago also has its own rhythm, also has its own pace, but people are more apt to have you, welcome you into their home and let's cook together. Let me cook this for you right, you know, you're sitting right there and you get the food right there.

Now, Tobago is moving towards that street food culture, but something like doubles is definitely something that came from Trinidad, it's not really homegrown in Tobago.

You're seeing doubles vendors now in Tobago, which was not a thing when I was growing up. If there was one doubles vendor, that was, that was a lot, and it wasn't being like a consistent thing it would be a few months and then you don't see this person and you're like oh I really want doubles you have to go to Trinidad to get it right? 

But in Tobago it's more about come to my house let me cook let me cook some crab for you you know let me stew pork and dumpling. Tobagonians, love, in fact, many people would tell you it really wasn't curried crab. It was stew crab that we used to do, a lot. And then, it kind of evolved into curry crab. And even the kind of crab that you get in Tobago would be different from the one you get in Trinidad. The one in Trinidad is a, what they call hairy leg crabs, it's very hairy. The one in Tobago is blue crab. Tobago blue crab.

Hema: There's so much in what you just said. You talk about things like, in Trinidad curry and roti and, doubles, which all speaks to…

Devonne: The Indians. 

Hema: Exactly the Indians. But when we come to something like a pelau or a one pot dish, it lends more to….

Devonne: African influence. Influence. That's right. You are so correct. I'm not even sure why it evolved that way because the other thing that you could get in Trinidad that tastes really good is Chinese food. The Chinese food is so good. You could get what we, what we would call Creole food, and even though there is some French, um, influence in Trinidad, I don't know that that French influence has really maintained itself in our food.

Hema: I see the French influence more in the language, but but not necessarily in then food.

Devonne: Food. Right. That's such an important observation that, the foods in Trinidad aren't necessarily what you would call African, but I guess people would say things like macaroni pie, right? They do make dumpling in Trinidad, but if you're really, if, when you think about dumpling, Tobago. Um, there's even this little, there's this little, folklore that, um, if a Tobagonian woman makes dumpling for you, you have to make sure she doesn't make it with her left hand. If she made it with her left hand, you are caught forever. You're caught in her romance web forever. So people always tease, if you say, Oh, I'm from Tobago, they're like, Oh, do you make left hand dumpling? 

Hema: You know, there is the, it, it is like the folklore of sweat rice.

Devonne: Yes. Correct.

Hema: I'm not even, we're not even going to describe that anymore.

Devonne: We need to tell them. I mean, we could tell them without being vulgar. So, so left hand dumpling, I guess, would be akin to what Trinis would call sweat rice or Trinbagoians would call sweat rice, right? So, sweat rice is the idea that a woman could make rice in a very, particular um, way, right, and where the sweat is coming from, use your imagination. And that is used when she's boiling the rice to basically trap you to make sure that you stay with her for the rest of your, of your life. 

I remember long ago there used to be left hand dumpling competitions. Women would come and make this dumpling with their left hand and it would be competitions to see who, could make it the best.

One of the things that connects back to history is that when the British first came to colonize Tobago, so this is after all treaties are signed, France has given them back Tobago and the like start to lay the foundation, right. And this is in the mid 1700s now. They come and when they described Tobago, there are a plethora of animals there. You're talking otters, you're talking wild hogs, like just so many animals that you, alligators, so many animals that you would not see on Tobago today. 

Now, Tobago, the center of Tobago is one of the oldest protected rainforests in the world. So you could imagine the kind of animal culture and, flora and fauna that was in there when it was untouched. But now these things have, when the, once the British came, they're literally extinct.

Never seen an otter in Tobago. Barely have I seen an alligator and I don't even know if it was an alligator. It may have been a caiman. And I'm saying that to say with the, with the killing out of those animals, now it's like, well then where do we turn? Right? So they turn to the ocean. 

So that's how you have things like crab being a, a big thing for us. Fish is a huge thing. Fish broth is huge in Tobago. To me, I think even if you, if you were to get a national dish in Tobago, it would probably be fish broth over anything else. People really drink a lot of fish broth in Tobago.

Hema:  Tell us, what a fish broth is. 

Devonne: So fish broth in Tobago, is a water based, it's brothy, so it's not thick like a soup. You could kind of use any fish that you prefer.

Some people like to use redfish or red snapper, some people might even use grouper, which is a more fatty kind of fish. But it's, it's like pumpkin, it's carrots, it's a light soup, but because of the fish in it, it, it tastes, it could be very nice and weighty in your stomach.

Of course, some people like the dumpling in it or whatever. provisions in it, and some people do it with a whole fish, right? Or some, you know, like to fillet it and put it in. And of course we eat the head. We eat the head of the fish in the fish broth. 

Hema:  Whole fish.

Devonne: Yeah. Right now I'm seeing my mother, scoop out the eye and mm, come, come, put it in your mouth. It's very, very popular, especially in, I think even more so in rural Tobago where they do a lot of fishing. So rural Tobago usually are seaside towns, right? Seaside villages. 

The other thing that you'd find a lot of in Tobago is yabba. Yabba is just like a mix. It's like any meat, like they throw anything in there. It's a very thick, it's… I don't even know how to explain it. It's thick, but it's also it's mushy, I guess, is the best way. And it has a lot of ground provisions, Tobago ground provisions, so your dasheen, your cassavas, stuff like that.

A lot of things that we eat, it's because of, again, it's what's available and because Tobago has such fertile soil to grow things. Cassava, which for us turns into something called farine, which is mm, mm, mm. It's so delicious, which is kind of like a grated, a dried grated cassava and it's so good. 

Hema: So talking about some of the dishes that you were just mentioning, the ground provisions plays a big role in a lot of dishes, whether it's the fish broth or whether it's in some of the other dishes, cassavas big, eddoes is big and it's used all over. And that comes from the times of colonization as well, right?

Very hearty, very filling… that were oftentimes the things that the enslaved people or the indentured servants were allowed to either grow or were given.

Devonne: Tobagonians to me as some of the most creative people in taking some of these things and creating foods that are so delectable. I know this, this exists in Trinidad as well. Souse, chicken foot souse, right? 

So souse is water based. Fish broth, I guess you could say, can have the same consistency in that they're clear water things but you know, you have your chicken foot souse, which is, you know,  but interestingly, Tobago is where you could find conch souse.

So conch is another seafood that's readily available. And so in the absence of chicken foot or anything like that, people would use conch and it's, it's same delectable way water based, you're talking, um, cucumber, celery, nice little herbs and spices in there. It's a salty vinegary type of concoction. And it’s divine.

But if you’re not info chicken foot or, it could have, cow skin or what, whatever. There's a wide variety available in Tobago. Many Trinidadians I don't think have ever had conch souse, but they've definitely probably had, yeah, chicken foot. 

Hema: I've never heard of conch souse, but souse and fish broth are similar in that they are water based, it is a thinner soup. Fish broth served warm, souse served cold. 

Whether it's made with chicken foot or conchs, or pig foot or cow skin are all ingredients that are the castaways…

Devonne: That’s right.

Hema: …that the colonizers, the enslavers wouldn't want to use and these delicious meals were created out of it.

Devonne: You, you are so correct.

So when it comes to telling the difference between a Trinidadian and, and a Tobagonian, and then let's say, usually you really can't tell a huge difference. Many people insinuate that maybe if they're darker skinned, they're from Tobago, right? Or if they're maybe of a lighter skin, they're from Trinidad, but that's not always the case. They're darker skinned people in Trinidad and they're lighter skinned people in Tobago. So that's really not a foolproof way. 

The next way I'm gonna talk about is not foolproof either, but this is what people say. Usually women who have a healthier, um, lower, lower, backside, usually because we eat so much of these ground provisions and fish and some of this healthy food, people tend to say, when, when you look strong and healthy, they're like, wow, this person must be from Tobago, 'cause they're eating all that, all of the cassava and the, and all of these things. 

Hema: Devonne, you're, you are gonna cause a ruckus in this episode. 

Devonne: I'm sorry. I'm sorry to be so controversial, but yeah, I, I'm just sharing my culture with you guys. Please don't take it as a, any kind of slight or disrespect, I'm just sharing my culture as I know it.

Hema: It is absolutely fair. Listen, I'm gonna take a step back to something we were talking about earlier, which is the left hand dumplings and sweat rice, which is based in folklore, but could also be based in things like obeah. 

Devonne: Obeah. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Hema: I wanna talk about that because that has a very significant influence in some of these folklores.

So what is obeah?

Devonne: Okay. So….listen, eh? I don't know if I'm even qualified to talk about this because I, every day when I learn like a new obeah ritual that people say exist, I'm like, really? I've never, I've never encountered it or been around it, so I really don't know. But people would liken it to black magic, just like a system of potions and mixtures, and tinctures and, um, casting spells and really just kinda black, dark, the dark arts, so to speak. 

The other day, somebody was explaining to me that, in order to like break the curse of bad luck, you should get a white fowl, a white fowl.

And hit your back with it, and the fowl is alive, mind you. So I'm like, this sounds painful. 

Let's say, you, you're having a string of bad luck, especially when it comes to romance. This is where you see obeah a featuring heavy. When it comes to romantic, like, oh, we, we could break this. Make sure you bring me a white fowl and all the different, and food, you have to bring them food and different provision and stuff like this to basically pay for their services. I guess now they take money, maybe they accept credit cards, not sure.

Hema: The way we're talking about it right now is, is, is the way that we talk about it in folklore, but at its core, obeah is a religion.

Devonne: Yes, well some….I think in some islands more than others. I don't know it to necessarily be a religion in Tobago. I just know it to be more, witch doctor like in Tobago. 

Hema: It's what people would liken to voodoo.

Devonne: Right. 

Hema: Which is also has religious undertones based in different parts of Africa. So I think what what is Obeah now, and we're talking about as it is in commonplace, in folklore, but it has a basis in a, in the African culture.

Devonne: Correct. In Tobago, there's, uh, and this is, this isn't necessarily, this is not necessarily Obeah related, but in the context of, of African culture literally taking its foot and just stamping, giving a footprint on the Caribbean, there's a story of a lady named Gang Gang Sarah, right?

So Gang Gang Sarah, came to Tobago as a slave and she professed to be, uh, a witch doctor or have these powerful, um, had powers beyond, belief. And she said that she could fly back to Africa, right? But, but….This, the problem was that she ate food with salt in it when she came to the Caribbean.

African food at this time was not salty. Salt is a what, spice that's coming from, it, it's not used. It wasn't used in cooking. So she ingests the salt on account of us being given these pieces of meat, pieces of thing that scraps that nobody else would want. But to make it palatable, we had to use salt, right? And once she did this, took in ingested the salt, she tried to fly back to Africa, fell to her death. And her grave is still in Golden Lane, which is the village that she, her centuries old grave is still in Tobago. You could visit it and, see it. 

Just kind of giving you a sense of this connection back on how we've used, how we had to use things like salt or sugar to make these things palatable. 

Like in Tobago, we eat something called pone. Pone is loaded with sugar. I love pone though. It's, it's one of my faves, one of my faves. And, again, it's like, oh, toss out the cassava, toss out, whatever it is, and put some sugar in it, make it into something else. 

 It speaks to the resiliency of people, but it also speaks to the wickedness of man, right, to and not give you the healthiest parts of these foods and what you are able to do with them.

Hema: Yeah. I did an episode with Keja Valens, who wrote a book called Culinary Colonialism, all about the history of food and the original cookbooks in the Caribbean. And one of the things she was, she was talking about in, in her academic research was that the Europeans, when they arrived in the Caribbean, they saw things like cassava and they saw things like ground provisions that were already there, and they felt that it was inferior to their own

Devonne: To the potato.

Hema:  white flour, their own potato. And so that's, that's why they didn't want to eat it, and they gave it to the enslaved people and the indentured servants. Because they, they considered it inferior to the things that they brought over.

Devonne: Yeah, I see it and, it's not that it's inferior, it's just I'm sure they weren't getting the best cassava, you know, they probably were getting something that was close to rotting, you know? 

Hema: and 

Devonne: yeah. 

Hema: And they just didn't know what to do with it.

Devonne: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Hema: We had a little conversation before we hit record and you mentioned that you polled your social media audience.

Devonne: That I did, I, that I did. So I am of my 12,000, Facebook followers. So I just threw out the question, and the question was, You are an immigrant in a foreign land and a stranger asks you, how is Tobago food different from Trini food? Respond with examples.

So, I got about 31 comments underneath this. I think it really opened my eyes that sometimes you are from where you're from and you have your ideas about what the food is, but then you hear others and you're like, oh, yeah.

You know, and then also the generation gaps, right? So in my mother's time, roti was seen as this like delicacy that they could only have at Easter time because this person would come from Trinidad. This East Indian woman would come from Trinidad and make this roti and bring it to Tobago and sell it at the Easter races.

So, it's something like that. They didn't grow up like, I can't imagine not having the availability of roti every day. I can't see it. My kids can't see that. Probably when I was younger it would be maybe a Friday thing every Friday, but then, but now I can't imagine it. Right. Or doubles or anything like that. 

Hema: What's, your favorite roti? 

What's your favorite 

Devonne: Okay. I'm a seafood, seafood girl through and through, so I'm, I'm Tobagonian. So it gotta be shrimp, it gotta be conch. Shrimp and conch roti I will eat all day long. A a a a close third is goat, but not like chicken or the run of the mill.

And, and I'm more of a buss up shut lady. I love, buss shut all day. I'm team buss up shut all day long. I love it. The only way you'd get me to eat a roti over the buss up shut is if it's a wrapped shrimp roti. That’s the only way.

Hema: And a dhal puri. 

Devonne: Yeah. Yeah. Dhal puri. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But buss up shot. Mmmm. 

Hema: The flaky and the soft in Oh, yes. I, mm, I agree with you. 

Devonne: Let's hear what some of them are saying. 

So, this person is saying, stewed pork and dumpling. For them, when they think of Tobago, they think about stew pork and dumpling. Yeah, somebody said, never heard of stewed pork and dumpling in Trinidad. 

So this person is Trinidadian, mostly pelau, okra and rice, oil down, and let's talk about oil down. Oil down is actually a very Grenadian thing, eh? It's not necessarily a Trinidad thing. And so one of the peoples who comes to Trinidad, especially when they find oil, right, when Trinidad finds oil, a lot of people from other Caribbean islands, specifically Grenadians as well as Bajans, find themselves in Trinidad to take advantage of this new liquid gold.

And they bring with them the oil down. Right? And that's where you see that kinda, coming up. 

Now in Tobago, you'd see people probably would more eat something called paime whereas in Trinidad you'd see more pastelles. Right. So pastelle is like salted, right? While paime is like a sweet dessert type of thing. But they're both wrapped in the banana leaf and the whole nine. 

Hema: And, made with corn, cornmeal. 

Devonne: Yeah. Yes.

Hema: Cornmeal. For cornmeal in a pastelle is a savoury 

Devonne: Right.

Hema:  made with meat and paime me is same corn meal, but it's sweet.

Devonne: Exactly. Now Trinidadians tend to eat certain types of fish that we don't eat much in Tobago. Things like cascadoo. We don't eat that fish in Tobago at all, but they eat it in Trinidad. 

Trinidadians may not prepare yabba or something we call sancoche, which I don't even know if I know what sancoche is really, but I've heard the term, but I don't necessarily know what, I've never had it. 

Hema: I did a, an episode with somebody from the Dominican Republic and sancoche was something he talked about, which is a big sort of one pot…

Devonne: Yes, yes, yes. 

Hema: …meat dish.

Devonne: Yes, okay. All right. That makes sense. The other thing that you'd find a lot in Tobago over Trinidad, which I don't understand why, but it gets back to what we were talking about, about the influx of people and how maybe the African culture just kind of, I wouldn't say disappear, it's still there. Definitely there any music and stuff like that, but like the food benne ball, sugar cake, red mango. 

Let me tell you something. When I was going to school in Trinidad, every time I, if, if I even mentioned that I was going Tobago for the weekend, please, could you bring me back benne ball? Could you bring me back? Could you bring me back? All of these things that I, I was like, but why don't you all have these things here is… 

Hema: I don't know what a benne ball is, tell me.

Devonne: A bene ball. Okay? So benne is…..and I, I have a, my, one of my best friends makes these, she's like a innovator of local sweets, so she makes something called Choco Benne. Right. So she of course, has the whole history of this, I do not, but it's, it's like sesame seeds. Sesame seeds with a sweetener, and it's rolled into a ball and in some countries it's soft, and in other countries it's hard. In Tobago, it's hard, like you bite into a hard confection, but when you bite it, it's like little nuts and just sweetness in in your mouth. Her innovation is the Choco Benne. The C Choco Bene is filled with chocolate. And the thing is to die for. It's to die for. So you roll it into a ball or some people now we, we have different, shapes because I think in like Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, they have it there as well, but it's just, they have different shapes. But ours is definitely a ball. So, so some people say benne stick, right. 

So you'll find it in Jamaica. You'll find it in a lot African culture islands throughout the Caribbean, but I don't know, for some reason, I don't know if Trinis, I don't know. It's like tamarind ball. 

So instead of like a a packaged snack, when I was young, we had packaged snacks, but people would have your, tamarind ball, lime ball, pawpaw ball, all these different sugar cakes, which is basically coconut.

And, these were the things that we were running for to get, at lunchtime we weren't really running down the, the packaged snacks. And now you could only really find those things that I'm talking about, the benne ball and so forth. You'd only find those at ports. Where the boat comes in between the ferry between Trinidad and Tobago, or where the plane comes in to Tobago. Whereas before, it was throughout all these schools, this is what your break time snack was.   Toolum, right? They have, I think they have toolum in Trinidad. 

Hema: For me growing up, I used to go back to Trinidad once a year with my family and all of these snacks that you're talking about were homemade snacks.

Devonne: Yes. 

Hema: My dad's auntie had what we call a parlour

Devonne: A parlour. 

Hema: under her house. So, on the ground floor of her home, she would cook all of these sweets. So she tamarind balls and sugar cake and pone all these sweets and sell them out of her home. And that was the norm, right? Preserved mango, nobody I know made salt prunes. That was something you always bought packaged. 

Devonne: That’s a great question. I remember the salt prune being in a large jar, but I always assumed it was homemade. Now, now I'm wondering, okay, I need to do some investigation on that.

Hema: All of these snacks, whether it's sugar cake, which is essentially coconut with a sugar syrup, and some kind of food coloring, that's the basic, but we all ate these snacks that you would get from somebody's, made in somebody's home, sold in a stand by the side of the road. 

Devonne: The other thing that was, that is a dying art in Tobago, I think there's only one woman in Tobago who makes this anymore. It's peppermint, like the pulled hot peppermint. It's a very intensive process and it's not ,any people who make it, but as a child, it was my favourite thing. Oh my God. I absolutely loved it. I have not seen that at all. I don’t think anybody makes that.

So Tobago, those confections, African influenced confections, those are huge Tobago staples. 

I was telling you about it, um,what people were saying. Tobago curry fish usually has okra in it, okro in it, unlike Trinidad's way of doing it. Somebody said we stew a lot, more African influence. Trini more in Indo influence. In Tobago the gravy is thicker. I didn't, I never thought about that. Tobago is more stews. Trinidad is more curry. 

Now, there's another thing that people talking about here, which is our cocoa tea. 

Hema: I love me a cocoa tea.

Devonne: Yes, Coco tea. It really is just hot chocolate, but, there's some different nuances. In Tobago you have to grater the cocoa in order to get it to the point of becoming the cocoa tea. And that's a bay leaf in it and all these nice little mmmm, oh gosh.

Hema: And cocoa or cacao is grown in Trinidad and Tobago. There are plenty of places, and even in, when I, the last time I was in Tobago, I went to a cocoa plantation where they grow, they show you how it's grown and dried and made into the chocolate. So that is something very local.

Devonne: I, I, you know, and I would invite your audience to, to Tobago for the Tobago Heritage Festival where you could see them do something called dancing the cocoa. I dunno if you encountered that when you went to the cocoa plantation. 

So the, the enslaved would be when the cocoa was dried, it would put, be put in this drying kind of house, it's like a little house, and then it would be pulled out into the sun and then the enslaved were made to dance and like sing these songs. So their feet are in essence doing, doing the work of dancing the cocoa. 

It's such a fun experience and it's very interactive. The crowd gets in with it and gets to dance the cocoa and our Chief Secretary, which is the, our person in Tobago who is in charge of the Tobago House of Assembly, he gets into it. It, it's a really fun, fun event. I would invite anybody, this is during the summer months, like in late July, early August to come and see the cocoa danced in Tobago.

Hema: Was there anything else that your followers from your Facebook group mentioned?

Devonne: I think there's this, people like to maybe put their heads in the sand a little bit when it comes to talking about the differences between Trinidad and Tobago, because somehow they feel like we're, you're taking away from the oneness of Trinidad and Tobago, but I think it's important to talk about these things because I, I get the sense that, Trinidad has its culture and way of doing it, and Tobago has its culture and way of doing things. But if we don't talk about these things, I don't know if we could get, you know, we wouldn't get to a place of real oneness. I feel like talking about it isn't taking away from our oneness, it could even get to celebrating our differences in a more, visible cheer, cheering kind of way. 

Hema: We, as we talked about in the, in the last episode is there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that we have different histories in Trinidad and, and Tobago, which shows up in the culture today. That doesn't mean that we're pitting one against the other, we're just acknowledging that there are some differences.

Devonne: Yes. Yes. Exactly.

Um, they talk a lot about coconut bake. People see the Trinidad dishes as often spicier more complex flavours influenced by Indian and Creole cuisines, while Tobago cuisine tends to be simpler focusing on fresh local seafood and natural ingredients. 

I'm not sure if I agree with the complexity of flavour profiles. I understand why they're saying it, but I don’t know that I would exactly agree with that, distinction. 

And then, so this was, was raising the, the, the, um, point of Trinidad leans towards street food and festive dishes while Tobago reflects a slower homestyle cooking tradition. 

So people talking about the Afrocentric nature of Tobago food, but here they're saying it's packed with seasoning and colour, right? Less fast food choices, more opportunity to taste true local food. So it's, that's why I didn't agree with the flavour profile. 'cause, I think both of them have a complexity of flavour. 

Now, this person grew up in the fifties, sixties, and seventies, and they're talking about the all lot of rice and peas, coucou, callaloo. Coucou is very important to Tobago, Tobago love their coucou, right?

Hema: And, and coucou, tell me what that is.

Devonne: Oh. Coucou. How to explain coucou. It’s um, okro, um….it’s a yellow..

Hema: cornmeal

Devonne: Cornmeal. It looks like a cake you could fool you into thinking it's a cake, but it's not a cake. It's a very savoury dish. And it's kind of molded together to form almost like a brick, but it's best eaten with callalou and a little bit of fish, and people go crazy for it in Tobago. It is mmmmm mmmmm people love it. People love it.

Hema: You know, there's, there's a variation of coucou in different islands or different Caribbean countries because of that African influence, which is the cornmeal and the okra and the cooking it up

Devonne: Yes. 

Hema: together. It's a side dish.

Devonne: Yes. It is a side dish. Correct. 

Hema: One of your followers mentioned fast food.

Devonne: Yes.

Hema:  And fast food nowadays and even, for several years has become much more of an influence in Trinidad, and I'm not sure in in Tobago. But there is one fast food restaurant

Devonne: Yep. That stands out among them all.

Hema: that you cannot. You cannot go to Trinidad and Tobago and not have this at least once. What is it?

Devonne: It is Colonel Sanders, the Finger Licking Good. Kentucky Fried Chicken. Oh my goodness. Listen.

Hema: And we’re opening up a can of worms 

Devonne: We are

Hema:  right now because people will, across the Caribbean, will say that their KFC is the best. KFC in North America, or at least here in Canada, does not compare.

Devonne: Ma’am, I'm gonna tell you, it downright tastes horrible. I don't,  the other day my son was like, how come we don't go to KFC in America? 

I'm like, sir, I don't wanna do that to you. I do not want to do that to you. I don't think you'll ever eat KFC again if I allowed you, because I, it almost ruined KFC for me. I ate it in Florida and I was like, like I, my heart was palpitating. I was like, this is horrible. 

But yes. So KFC in Trinidad and Tobago is a huge deal. So much so to the fact that I believe at one point in time, our KFC in Port of Spain was the number one selling KFC in the world, right? Meaning sells the most, not because it tastes the best, right? But because it sold so many and there are couple items on the KFC menu that were created in Trinidad and Tobago, I believe a zinger. Yeah, the KFC zinger was created in Trinidad and Tobago, but I really want to know what accounts for that difference in taste. Why? Like, I don't get it. It's so different. Even when I tasted it in Jamaica, St. Lucia. It tastes the same in the Caribbean, but the moment you step out, like my brother goes around the world tasting KFCs. He loves KFC and since we were children, and he, and for him St. Petersburg in Russia, I think, yeah. St. Petersburg was the best he had ever had. He was like, outside of Trinidad and Tobago. It's a, it's the one he loved the most. 

Hema: It's funny that I didn't even name the restaurant. I just said fast food, and you knew exactly what I was talking about.

Devonne: But here's the thing. So let's talk about this and how it evolves in Tobago. Tobagonians are home cooks, right? We make some of the best fried chicken at our home, right? I don't even remember if Royal Castle, which is a a homegrown chicken, fried chicken fast food restaurant.

I don't know if they were first, or if KFC was first. I think Royal Castle was first. But when these places came, the, the idea was, you know what? I don't think it's gonna work. Tobagonians like to cook their food and they're not going to be a part of this, fast food life. So when they came, I, I was in high school.

I, I was in in 1990s and it, it was like, oh yeah. And then it kinda died off. But let me tell you, convenience will trump every time because when you're facing kids who hungry and they're ready to eat, you don't have the time to sit over a pot of hot oil frying chicken, and you're like, you know what? Let's just go get that KFC. 

So now there's not one but three. Yeah, I think there are about to be three KFCs in Tobago, which is, that's a lot. There's Churches Chicken, there's Subway. None of these people you would've expected because Tobagonians love their cooked food. 

Hema: There's a lot of fast food now in Trinidad. Growing up when I was a kid and I used to go there, down the street from where my grandmother lived in Couva, there was a fried chicken place called Tennessee Fried Chicken. So fried chicken has always been the thing. 

Devonne: As you said, fried chicken pre-existed KFC, so it's easy.  I don't believe it's the same ho and spices and spices that they're using in America. I think they've, they add something else differently. So wherever it is, we've latched onto them and we're not letting them go. But there's also room for the locals.

So, as I said, Royal Castle, there's something called Japs Fried Chicken in Trinidad and Tobago has, its own, homegrown chicken spots as well. 

Hema: When as, as we round out this episode,  there are some places that are very easy to get to and very accessible in Tobago to try the local food. So you could walk from the airport

Devonne: Yep. 

Hema: to Store Bay 

Devonne: Yes, Which is, uhhhh, at most eight minutes. At most eight minute walk. 

So Store Bay is so interesting to me. It's, it's a hub of commerce, so, and it's a, a hub of tourist commerce. So when you walk over there, there's, bathrooms for you to bathe and wash up after you go to the ocean and you could go to the reef from there. So Tobago has, a reef.

And it, there's also something called the Nylon Pool, which is this shallow water in the middle of the ocean, and there's also kind of like a little a peninsula called No Man's Land, which encircles a, a, a lagoon. 

So all of this you can do from Store Bay, you could rent jet skis and all sorts of things. Very much, a ocean lover's dream. 

But what they also have is a food lover’s dream. I don’t know how it evolved, but, um, local law says one woman came and started making crab and dumpling and offering, um, the same sweets and snacks that we talk about. So she would cook food and offer it for sale on the beach. And then another woman comes and another. So there are about five of them there that are our who we would call our Tobago chefs, right?

So there's Miss Jean, there's Miss Trims, so these are people who have been cooking food for Store Bay public, right? For years. And so our our local assembly and our government decided to formalize their operations and give them these little, I, I mean, I wanna say hut for lack of a better way, but it's come almost kind of like a, it's a outdoor, indoor cafeteria is maybe how I would say. The cooking is done in, in these little individual huts. So you go to which one you want, you want something from Miss Trim, you want something from Miss Jean, you go there and you could buy whatever is local fare, but usually you guaranteed to get crab and dumpling, conch and and dumpling, maybe stew something stewed.

It's up to you. But you'll definitely get to taste crab and dumpling there as well as getting some of our local sweets. So the tamarind ball, the sugar cake, preserves, stuff like that. And then you could sit in this beautiful over, open area overlooking the ocean, overlooking Store Bay and just enjoy. 

So, if you literally had eight hours to spend in Tobago, that's a very solid place to start. But you know, of course I would suggest that you go well past Store Bay and see what the rest of the island has to offer. But that's a good start. 

Hema: Yes. And, and that is just the tip of the iceberg of what you could discover in Tobago, right? One of the things you can also get there is, homemade ice cream…

Devonne: Mm-hmm. 

Hema: which is some of, some of my favourite.

Devonne: Zib's homemade ice cream, if you're gonna add. Oh, so delicious. Mm-hmm.

Hema: And certainly on the walk there you're gonna pass some other places that maybe sell some fast food or more of the quick serve. But as Devonne said, if you have eight hours and you land at the airport, just walk to Store Bay and you're gonna get a nice little flavor of Tobago. 

Devonne: Exactly.

Hema:  If you have eight days, go further than that.

Devonne: She said eight days. I love it. If you have eight days, please go further. I mean, listen, I have a cousin, she's like, I don't wanna hear anything. I'm going onto Store Bay, bring me my crab and dumpling. I don't wanna hear anything. Every day she's there. That's all she wants to do, but, and that's fine.

And that's fine. But know that, there's so much more to discover as well. But yes.

Hema: There is so much more. Listen, thank you so much for joining me for these two episodes. We talked about so much and there is so much more, but I'm going to leave in the show notes, the links to your social medias because people can continue to follow you and find out not only more about Tobago and about Trinidad, but about all over the Caribbean because you're sharing such great information.

Devonne: Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed my time here on your podcast, The Moreish Podcast. I love it. Thank you.